America pushes back! (kind of)
June 12, 2008I find it encouraging that the US Supreme Court continues to assert that Gitmo detainees are, in fact, human beings, despite the Bush administration’s arguments to the contrary. It’s a good sign that even a conservative court can draw a line in the sand, as it were, against the machinations of our self-proclaimed “war-president.”
Isn’t it scary that we’re at this point, though? That the executive branch of our government decided it was ok to take 500 prisoners from other countries, put them in a prison camp outside of US territory, torture them, and hold them indefinitely without even accusing them of anything? That congress has done nothing about it for 8 years? That only the Supreme Court has the balls to disagree, even in theory?
I was more than willing early on to give GW Bush a chance. When they told us Iraq was building massive stores of WMD and so we had to go in there, I thought, ok, if that’s true, then maybe we should go in there.
But that wasn’t true at all.
So I didn’t trust the bastards after that. Not one bit.
Still, when they told us they had found these awful terrorist types who were so damned awful that we had to keep them locked up at Guantanamo Bay (300 yards away from 4000 Cubans who are trained to kill us, as the line goes), I thought, that sounds reasonable.
Then they told us they were torturing those people.
And you know what struck me as soon as I heard it? That’s bullshit. That’s not what I have always been led to believe that America is about. The people who authorized that stuff are criminals.
So now, the line is that these people are so awful, so bent on our destruction, that after holding them for 2 or 4 or 6 years, our government can’t even say what they’ve done, for fear of jeopardizing our safety.
But then every once in a while, when international pressure is brought to bear, they release one.
Our bad. We thought for 6 years that you were a human dirty bomb and that your freedom posed an imminent threat to the existence of our nation. But then Canada called and told us you were ok after all. So, when we were waterboarding you, and you kept screaming that you had no idea what we were talking about terrorist activities, you were telling the truth!
Isn’t that ironic? You’re not mad, are you?
Would you be?
Dispatches from the Pine Woods... 
Amazing you think they should be treated so well. You obviously didn’t loose anyone when they decided through their fanatical idiocy to kill countless Americans. What type of treatment do you think you would get in their country?…..it is a sad statement to make.
Wow. I can’t believe that an actual American would post this type of drivel. You would rather give someone who came in this country with the intent to kill as many innocent people as they can, just because of where they live, the same level of rights as an actual US Citizen?
Are you on glue? These people deserve much more than what we’ve already done to them for the thousands of innocent victims they’ve slain. This makes me sick.
I’m not addicted to glue. I’m stuck on it. Har har.
These people have not been accused of trying to kill Americans. They haven’t been accused of anything so far as I can tell.
I know for a fact that many of them did not “come here with the intent to kill.” They were rounded up in Afghanistan and elsewhere and brought here on board a prison ship.
I’m not saying that any of them are innocents, nor that they don’t deserve to have bad things done to them.
I’m saying that if we’re going to keep them in prison, we should actually accuse them of something, produce evidence to prove our case, and etc.
And I’m saying it’s not our place to torture them “because they deserve it.” Maybe that’s how it’s done in their respective countries, but I like to think that the US is better than that. A nation of laws, remember? 9th grade civics class?
And you know what’s a sad statement? That weak f*cks like you want to abandon the very ideals this country was founded on at the first sign of trouble. Forget our laws! These people deserve torture! Trust our government to handle them! Trust our Leader!
It doesn’t make me sick, tho. Every country has fascists. We just have to outvote them.
-duck
PS: I got your drivel right here, ThinkingMan.
You know, this administrations has been all about smoke and mirrors, secret energy policies and going around the constitution. Did you know that Cheney formed a secret shadow government shortly after the supremes appointed bush to office?
Fact; Afghanistan attack was planned before 9-11, the Taliban was not co-operating with the US oil companies in building the Caspian Sea pipe line. After 9-11 ( which is another smoke and mirrors event) they attacked poor little Afghanistan, rounded up all those people, most of them poppy farmers who had really committed no crimes whatsoever, even children. And to hold them without cause is horrible and then to torture them as well. I keep thinking this is not my country, this is more like Russia or Germany under Nazi rule. We have to get back to a moral ground. And it is coming soon. The criminals will be gone from the WH soon.
Prince Caspian would be pissed if he knew these things were going on in his Sea.
OH I just love this “Nation under God”—-It trips me up that we can throw our values and so called “democracy” aside when it comes to foreigners…forget the “rules!” We’re just as bad as them! Eye for an eye! Whoo hooo…kill them all! Get ahold of yourselves, people. Please just stand back and look at yourselves.
Seriously…has this nation gone to pot!?!?
I am an American and a Christian (and I value both with all of my heart)….and Duck, I appreciate your insight…as always.
Great response to the braindead thinking man partlytruth. That seems to be the same way my arguments go with many of the far right wingers/sadists/scared to think on their own type folks. I begin with intelligent conversation and trying to debate a point and by the end of the conversation find myself so frustrated that I am either calling them or thinking that they are, idiots. Good stuff. Keep writing.
Enemy Combatants …
Break the label into it’s components
> A combatant – these people killed or wanted to kill U.S.Citizens
> An enemy – not friendly … wanting to do harm
Judges and Citizens alike want to treat these people like friendlies… Ignornant and Harmful.
The black operation unit will just have to interrogate the prisoners in the field and eliminate them from the system.
“Its” in the possessive form has no apostrophe, KC. Only when it’s a contraction of “It is.”
Make whatever loopy arguments you want, man, but when you’re in my house, you obey my f%^&ing rules of grammar!
Do you understand me, KC!?! You f^&*ing hayseed!?! Do you?!!??
All this is going to lead to is the phrase “Shoot to kill.” And to us just sending prisoners to Ally countries.
So maybe some people are innocent, well now they wont be given teh chance, because some stupid libs show feelings towards terrorists who want to kill everyone in America, just because we live in America.
I cant even put into words how ridiculously stupid this ruling is.
Are you kidding? These people are being treated like tourist, instead of terrorist. Do you think our guys get this kind of treatment in their care? At least we don’t send them home with their heads severed, or tortured the way they torture. (The left cries over water boarding.)
How is it the judges in this country have so much power? I thought the people had the power?
The only think I wish they would do is prosecute these people sooner. Prove their guilty or innocence, and get on with a suitable sentence, or let them go.
“The only think I wish they would do is prosecute these people sooner. Prove their guilty or innocence, and get on with a suitable sentence, or let them go.”
Amen.
And that, dear Duck, is half of our voting population–people who can’t engage in sophisticated enough thinking to consider that we might (and did, and currently do) have people in Gitmo that did absolutely nothing wrong, and were rounded up for whatever reason, and are now in their, what, sixth year of incarceration in a shipping crate?
I may be just a terrorist appeasing libtard, but goddamn it if I don’t think we stand for something here, in this country, that’s more than buildings people can knock down and empty-headed faux-patriotic jingoism.
Holding people for years and torturing them without giving them the opportunity to prove their innocence in a fair trial is *wrong* folks. It’s so obvious it pains me to say it.
Conservatives who are in favor of keeping people indefinitely at Gitmo without habeas are willfully ignorant of the basic principles of our democracy.
It’s shameful.
Duck,
Wow, what a firestorm you’ve brewed. Hey, right wing blowhards: if you want another fight, come attack my blog (www.elihastings.blogspot.com). I’ll rip you a new one, too.
Bottom line is that uneducated people always respond well to fear as a motivation and violence as a solution. It cuts out all the bothersome frills of international politics and morality. It’s why, my lovely MFA partners, that Danielle Steele is richer than William Gay. For example.
Ok, so that Danielle Steele analogy was a bit unwieldly. What I meant was that it’s easier not to have to think.
Duh.